What happened to HM, the official answer

[Sage Tech]

As you may of noticed, things look a bit strange round here. Though if you've been a member for over 3 years it may look historically familiar. So, WHAT HAPPENED?

Our provider "out grew/argued/annoyed" their data centre which lead to them doing an emergency move without warning. This resulted in one of our hosting accounts being lost in a DNS nightmare. When chasing for this to be fixed our providers managed to restore all of our hosted sites but somehow delete our main HM site and these forums. Eventually these were restored from a dusty backup. So why haven't we now restored from a later backup?

When things go wrong they really go wrong. Whilst our provider was busy losing our data my backup server decided to brain fart taking a terrabyte of data with it. Unfortunately as I run HM not for profit I have been lapse in not implementing a more thorough backup regime, for that I sincerely appologise. I do have a more recent backup but not recent enough to make much difference. One of the reasons for the delayed timing of this post is I've been rebuilding old PCs in the hope of finding something post 2005 and trying to recover data from a now defunct disk, unfortunately to no avail. So what next?

On the bright side everybody else's site that we host "should" now be okay and if I had to chose between losing the HM forums or losing your sites it is the forums I would always choose. Having said that I've slapped myself a few times over backups. Next step is to get these forums working and looking a bit nicer. I'll also be upgrading to the latest version so there will be some nice new cool features.

I'm also open to suggestions on what else to do so please use this thread as a sounding board. We now have a great excuse and reason for a fresh start

[Mike]

Funny you should mention this, me and Tim have been talking about this for the past two days, kinda behind you back haha.

One new, fully controlled dedicated server, we fount one at theplanet.com for $89 USD (5 IPs, 750G Bandwith, 80G HardDisk, and 512M RAM). Install vBulletin 3.7 with a whole new skin/template, that matches with a cPanel skin.

We put lots of thought into it, I think Tim has more detail though haha

[Mike]

Oh, and just wipe the users table. Get rid of old moderators, ect. Maybe have Super Moderators again?

[Sage Tech]

Thanks Mike. I'll be interested to see what you and Tim have come up with. 'm already in talks with theplanet over a new managed server for CG, though I've found they are being a bit slow with replying, not a good sign.

[Mike]

Well, Tim and I have found they have a good reputation after a while, hmm. I have seen other forums running vB 3.7 without fail, and it looks pretty sweet. I'll help in any way you need. Looks like you can use the Social Groups instead of the other thing we use to assign Dev Team, ect.

[Darkneo]

Its been a while since i have been here ST. It seems that things were going well till this happened :(

Good luck with everything.

[Mike]

Ugh Tim needs to get onnnnnnn

EDIT: Woot 25 posts xD

[Darkneo]

Yeah, I am sure Tim would be glad to know what was going on.

[Mike]

Well, he did come up with 6 of the 7 possibilities.

1) Gazzin destroyed the forums and ST put in a 3-year old backup
2) Gazzin destroyed the forums and Gazzin put in a 3-year-old backup
3) ST destroyed the forums and put in a 3-year-old-backup
4) Hacker destroyed the forums and Gazzin put in a 3-year-old-backup
5) Hacker destroyed the forums and ST put in a 3-year-old-backup
6) This is just a dream

We have a winner :D

[Tim]

Grgugguh. That is kind of disappointing that there are no earlier backups. I guess the upside is it kind of presents the opportunity to start over/improve though. Anyway, I think Gazzin owes us a giant refund -_-.

The server mike speaks of was the lowest one available on TP. It would actually cost $114/mo. with cPanel and Fantastico. I guess having a dedicated server would allow us to fix things without relying on "the provider" all the time, though at such a price, it may/may not be worth it (I doubt that you actually make $114/mo. on Google Ads for the forums). Although if you host your other websites (CG, your gaming site, your blogs, etc.) it may become worth it instead of having dozens of reseller/shared accounts. On that note, hosting all of your websites, especially CG, on the same server might be too much load (CG must get tons of hits, no?)

Anyway, pretending that money is not an issue, here is what we proposed:

Set up a forum on the dedicated server, with side bar, rep tables, rep fairy, new version, etc.--everything we are accustomed to.
Set up a form to automatically (?) tranfer current accounts, or at least automatically create hosting accounts for current accounts.
Provide users a 1 month notice (via email, forum announcements, etc.--I think WHM has a mass-contact feature? Or I always assumed that because it makes you put in an email address.) to tranfer sites. This would do both get users onto the new server, and weed out old accounts (if they don't do the transfer, they weren't using their account).
Transfer the forum data
Customize everything to suit HM--e.g., we could have a green cPanel theme :PUghhh, I still can't believe gazzin did this to us.

[kendall]

Quick question, so will there be any way for us to get some our lost rep?

[Tim]

Hmmm, I doubt it kendall, because we don't have a record, but maybe if you give ST a realistic estimate (sometime after everything's been figured out) we could edit rep. Even if we don't, you're not going to be denied a hosting package :P.

P.S.: Mike wants a forum layout change, something updated/modern. I don't really :p.

[Mike]

I had exactly 441 rep, I remember cause I had it in my sig :PP

Yes Tim, we need MODERNIZATION!

[Tim]

By the way, google cache is still hosting some of our posts/tutorials, so if any member wants to save/repost some of their better tutorials, do it ASAP:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aforums.hostmatrix.org+stick+a+list +in+an+array

^Example search

[Sage Tech]

Quick question, so will there be any way for us to get some our lost rep?
I wouldn't worry about that just yet, we will sort something out.


I will be updating the theme to include all the latest features and remove most or all of the ads.

My other sites are already on their own dedicated servers, they will not share with HM. I am looking at moving some of them, again due to support issues but that is totally a separate agenda for me.

I do like the ideas you've proposed, they could certainly work. I'd be happy to fund a server for 6 months or so but we will need a plan to make it pay for itself over the long term. Ideas on that are welcome.

[kendall]

This link may help anyone looking: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&as_qdr=all&q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.hostmatrix.org%2Fforu mdisplay.php%3Ff%3D&btnG=Search

[Tim]

Hmm, why would you be removing the ads? I guess they're not too profitable?

Well, I really don't know how a server could be funded without ads. Thoughts:

Paid hosting. Small accounts for something like $5/month for users who want more. If we can get even 23 people to do this, that will fund the entire $114 server.
Ad-supported hosting with better package deals (I'd prefer not.)
Pay-for-rep (e.g., $5 for 10 points)--I'd rather not do this either.Hmmm.
I'd be interested in the figures of usage & income, i.e., would we even need the resources of a dedicated server, or would it be more worth it to go with a reseller with better reliability?

[Darkneo]

or you can use archive.org's way back machine, http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://hostmatrix.org

Edit: Eh, it seems slower then it used to be at one time.

Edit 2: And apparently not everything is archived :(

[Mike]

Wayback machine takes like 6 months to archive, not cool :|

But yeah, paid hosting, or paid affiliates or paid advertisers (that arent a network e.g. google).

[Mike]

Oh, and I would so pay $5/mo for hosting if the package is large enough

[Mike]

Tim says this for paid hosting:

1GB Storage
10-15GB Bandwith
Unlimited Mail, MySQL, Addons, Parked, Ect.


And if that's the package I would do it :D

[Darkneo]

Lol, I am adding some old PHP Gaming tutorials that used to be on here.

[Mike]

I am thinking of doing all-new guides for the "new" HM :P

PS: I love how I am double/triple posting xD

[Darkneo]

Yeah, I noticed, lol. You post count is going to go way up, lol. I wish we still had that back up though :( At least google saved back ups for us :)

[Tim]

Here is my math:
$5/mo*23 customers = $115, enough to pay for the server with $1 profit
23 customers * 1gb space = 23 gb space
23 customers * 15gb bandwidth = 345gb bandwidth

Assuming every customer uses 100% of their disk/bandwidth, there would be 57gb space left. A few gb reserved for the main website and forums leaves at least 50gb space for free hosting, more than enough. 750gb bandwidth (what mike says the ded. server had, I don't remember) - 345 gb bw - ~10gb (overestimate) for the forums leaves 395 gb bandwidth.

The hosting would allow unlimited everything, file storage, etc. within the disk/bandwidth limits. For $5/mo, this actually beats most other paid hosting providers, and it leaves us with enough room for tons of free hosting.

Just an idea, but the greatest problem would be finding 22 more customers.

[Darkneo]

Yeah, if this hadn't happened then we wouldn't be worrying right now, too bad we didn't have a back up plan.

[Mike]

It would have to be $5.45/mo to cover paypal fees. But it would only be 61.50 if they chose to pay yearly.

5.45 x 12 = 65.40/yr

[asgsoft]

you say all sites should be back, right?

These were add on domains and they are not up!!

http://www.domainleft.com/
http://www.domainexpo.biz/
http://www.asgsoft.net/ <= Should be renewed soon

[meow]

oh noooo!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
how could they do this to us!!!!!
did they mention about any compensation!?!

we've lost 3 years worth of valuable posts!!!! >____<

[Dan]

Wow, that is very unfortunate.

It's going to be a pain to get everything going again, but hey, we've been through worse.

I think the paid hosting idea would work, honestly. We've been wanting to do that for a while now, and what better chance than this? I'm sure with a little advertising and word of mouth, we can get 23 people, or even more.

It sucks that this happened, but it's a ressurection for HM. You have to look on the bright side of things :)

P.S. I need to get my name changed and my mod status back, haha, I already see spam I can't delete. :p

[kadhal]

This is the latest HM version that i could find (July 2007)

http://web.archive.org/web/20070715171140/http://forums.hostmatrix.org/

and the latest HM rep table (http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:j6UG1FKVTfwJ:forums.hostmatrix.org/rep.php%3Fm%3D1%26y%3D2008+site:http://forums.hostmatrix.org/+reputation+2008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a)

and some of the tutorials (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=K1i&as_qdr=all&q=+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fforums.hostmatrix.org%2F++t utorial&btnG=Search)

[Mike]

Hmm, it looks like you upgraded the vBulletin. But profiles are broken ;_;

[Darkneo]

Hm, I hope we can get everything working right and flowing right again :)

[Mike]

I call be userID # 2 if we reset :P

[Darkneo]

unless i beat you to it :P

[Mike]

Well, I have a life :P
And ST, remember I called it ;)

If we DO have a paid hosting thing, I'll sign up ^.^

[d1srupt3r]

I felt so sorry on what happened to HM but I guess ST is right that this is the time for a new HM! More features and a lot more better than before. :)
Whatever you guys decided, I'm at your back to support you in any way. :D
Good luck to us!

PS:
I think it is also time to clean up inactive webhosting account?:) Like for example giving a definite days to confirm their accounts. What do you think?:)

[meow]

wow!! i like the new profile page!! :D :D

[Eion]

This is a sad day for sure.. especially when it looks like HM will be abandoning its long time Free quality about it. I am on board with everyone else in saying that I wish there was something else we could do, but this is how it is and HM is going to keep on strong! I am HMer and that will not change. Its our duty now to rebuild our place on the internet, and it is a privilege to be a part of it.

[Tim]

This is a sad day for sure.. especially when it looks like HM will be abandoning its long time Free quality about it
IF we do do minimal paid hosting (enough accounts to fund the server), I think I am sure in saying that we would never get rid of the free hosting. Free hosting should have the same packages, the same rep requirements, etc. However, many members of HM outgrow free hosting and want to move to paid hosting for more resources/less restrictions/etc. This would be like an upgrade, and it also supports free hosting. Hmmm... I wish there was a better way to make the funds for a server, but we can't expect ST to give everything out of his pocket :p.

[Sage Tech]

I'd also like to find an alternative to paid hosting, other suggestions?

[asgsoft]

ST

do you know whats happening with my sites?
you say all sites should be back, right?

These were add on domains and they are not up!!

http://www.domainleft.com/
http://www.domainexpo.biz/
http://www.asgsoft.net/ <= Should be renewed soon

[Darkneo]

@ST, you could have created a development team on here, and have them create web based scripts.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

[Sage Tech]

ST

do you know whats happening with my sites?
Do the directories exist in your space?

[Tim]

Thought (it may be a repeat, I forget -_-):
We could do something like voluntary ads on the users' pages with an incentive of 50% payment. That is, a user would choose to put HM's ads on their website, and for every $2 we make, they get $1 and we get $1. Though, if this was done, why not sign up for adsense yourself? Hmmmm... I guess it's like a long-term donation?

^ Failed idea.

Another thought:
A sort of HM-rent-a-coder/designer. HM sets up a system in which people from within HM can request a design, logo, special work, etc. for their website. HM would take a commission, e.g., 10-20%, and the rest would go to the coder.

Although I have doubts over how much participation there would be, and it would be difficult to set up.

^ Failed idea.

[asgsoft]

Do the directories exist in your space?

TBH I don't know because my main domain has expired and I am struggling to get hold of my registerar to renew it for me.

Are you able to tell me another way I can check?

BTW Tim

If there is a paid plan which would benifit us I am more than happy to take part. :D

[Mike]

Hmm, I thought we were doing a complete reset :P

Edit: Can you change my username to Mike, and possibly make my user id 2? :P

[Sage Tech]

Username changed, I'm not going to start changing IDs though, I've got enough stuff to do :)

[Mike]

well, all I need is cPanel info? :D

[Darkneo]

Lol, everyone would be asking for different user id's, lol.

[Mike]

He could clear all inactive users, and you? :p

[Darkneo]

Nah :P I perfer being here. I've been here for a long time, lol. Since I still have my old account.

[Mike]

I contributed more :P

[Tim]

Put your arguing energy into coming up with funding ideas :P

[meow]

Mike! if you change your name to Mike, then what about the "mck" Mike? :o

[Mike]

We can call him mck, he probably doesn't know HM died yet ;_;.

He's like magic, appears like poof :O

[Quantumstate]

He's like magic, appears like poof :O

I thought that was what you did with cheese?

Back on topic I don't really have any especially good ideas. Perhaps the dev team could get round to making something. I have a lot of time free now in the summer once my exams have finished so I could give a lot of time to a project.

The idea of getting people to buy a script seems interesting. I am not sure whether we could find people who would want to buy it. I would make a script as long as it wasn't a huge project. I am no good at money making ideas anyway though.

[keith]

I'm not sure if you like the idea. Instead of asking for $5/month fee; try a new marketing idea, that is, $1/month hosting.

For a start, it will sounds infeasible, since no where are we going to hit that figure to pay. And if we do start accepting that, it is almost equivalent to overselling, which could potentially lead to server failure.

In spite of this, perhaps look on the brighter side, if we have some kind of rules that is in place to govern the uptime, bandwidth, resources, etc. to ensure some kind of system monitoring to avoid abuse, then this $1/month offer is definitely going to attract more people who are willing to pay out of their pocket.

Of course, upon saying that, this may not eventually pay everything, but think of it as a subsidy for the time being, for a better and secured hosting environment.

[dyeprey]

you might want to look into donation system? just a thought.

[d1srupt3r]

Yes, I agree with dyeprey. :) There are lot of HM members who are willing to donate. Should have a lot of ways for the donation not just paypal because Paypal is not yet available in my country. And then for people who have donated. they will have some special incentives like for example an additional feaure in their existing free hosting account?

On the paid hosting part, hmm.. I think an affiliation is a good idea? For example I had a friend who bought a paid hosting here in HM then I will have 5%(or you decide how much).. Or will have an option if I would liketo convert it into something for my existing free webhosting account?

[Eion]

IF we do do minimal paid hosting (enough accounts to fund the server), I think I am sure in saying that we would never get rid of the free hosting. Free hosting should have the same packages, the same rep requirements, etc. However, many members of HM outgrow free hosting and want to move to paid hosting for more resources/less restrictions/etc. This would be like an upgrade, and it also supports free hosting. Hmmm... I wish there was a better way to make the funds for a server, but we can't expect ST to give everything out of his pocket :p.

Oh, I was confused, sorry. :P Well, if that were to be the case, I think that I would be extremely on board with this sort of move! To be honest, HM's free packages more than fulfill my needs currently as my game isnt running and I dont have any real hits to my site. But I was thinking about the future in terms of getting a paid hosting plan if I wound up outgrowing HM's free packages (which is admittedly a VERY far way out there, but still). If HM offered such premium packages at such an incredible rate as $5 or something, and it still had the administration I have come to respect and trust and still kept up this top-notch community, there is no doubt in my mind that I would start paying for my game to be here at HM. I am a college student in not a particularly high income bracket (see: minimum wage in the United States. see also: not enough to live) but I like how the discussion is going for the paid plans that I may one day need. Again, that is a long way out there, but I have come to really enjoy being here and I think that if my game takes off in the way I'd like it to, I think I'd love to stay with HM on my hosting regardless.

I wish I had more suggestions to help with the discussion, but I simply dont know enough about hosting or costs or anything to really be of much help. But I am voicing my support for HM's spirit.

[Mike]

Yes, I agree with dyeprey. :) There are lot of HM members who are willing to donate. Should have a lot of ways for the donation not just paypal because Paypal is not yet available in my country. And then for people who have donated. they will have some special incentives like for example an additional feaure in their existing free hosting account?

On the paid hosting part, hmm.. I think an affiliation is a good idea? For example I had a friend who bought a paid hosting here in HM then I will have 5%(or you decide how much).. Or will have an option if I would liketo convert it into something for my existing free webhosting account?

*cough*lieaboutyourcountry*cough*

That sounds like a good idea too :)

[phoenixeagle]

The Planet are a nightmare, only if you are running your own nameservers can you get any semblance of sanity
Their support is supposedly excellent, but in my experience they are a nightmare, took them 6 months to fix an email problem that they caused in the first place, only by threatening to sue them did they finally sort it out
Be warned:D

[Darkneo]

Well then threaten to sue them right away, and the problem will be fixed faster :)

[daman371]

Is there going to be anyway of reverting to the amount of rep we had?

[LewstherinII]

Changing the MySQL field mayhap? I don't know how possible it is with this.

Damn to lose all this forum data but at least we still have our sites back, I tihnk you made the right choice ST.

[alphonse]

Hi Sage Tech and all, wishing you good luck to restart these forums from a backup of 3 years old.

[Darkneo]

We can restart these forums with all the active members :)

[asgsoft]

So!

when are the sites going to be back?

I am still seeing the WHM cpanel page!!

[alphonse]

Anyone think HM should just restart the forum from scratch again? I think it'll be better than using an old archive, I think we should just keep the members only and not the content.

[Dan]

Anyone think HM should just restart the forum from scratch again? I think it'll be better than using an old archive, I think we should just keep the members only and not the content.

Why would we do that? We have some important content on here, and it would just be a waste.

[nafi]

I agree with ST. This is as clean a slate as HM should ever have to endure. Keep the bit of content that could be rescued and just build on that.

[asgsoft]

why is domainleft.com still not working?

my other domains are fine!

[Sage Tech]

why is domainleft.com still not working?

my other domains are fine!


Could you start another support thread with this and state if it's your main domain or an addon. I know you had trouble with expiring or something like that.
Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience.

[xxll_martin_llxx]

So, what IS happening with Host Matrix?

[Eion]

So, what IS happening with Host Matrix?

Going strong! :D

[Eion]

The thing I miss most? The recently created threads link on the sidebar... man its just not checking HM without looking over there and seeing if there is any new threads... :P

[kendall]

The thing I miss most? The recently created threads link on the sidebar... man its just not checking HM without looking over there and seeing if there is any new threads... :P
me too. I keep looking for it:/

[alphonse]

The homepage at hostmatrix.org is still the old version. I think it should be updated.

[prettydang1]

Well, things could be worse. But I seem to be prettydang1 again. I imagine once things calm down I'll ask to be rid of the "1" again. But no rush. I'm just glad everyone's still around :)

Edit: HAHA holy CRAP my old avatar and sig! Oh man I'd forgotten all about those things! Oh jeez. blast from the past.

[Arcorn]

Well finally my second visit onto the net apart from checking referee appointments I signed up again. The backup was just before I signed up which kind of sucks but meh it happens.

[688206002]

First, sorry for reviving an old thread

Second, I know this is probably a bit of a stretch, but would Google or any other search engine out there happen to have a cache of some of the lost forum content? If so, would there be a way to retrieve that content?

[kendall]

Well I did try that. But google got mad at me and blocked me a few times lol. Unfortunately, by now all the cache is bound to have been updated. But you can try if you want.

[daman371]

Well there is a site that has archives of internet websites. I don't know if they would have it or not though either.

*EDIT* Nope, it (http://web.archive.org/web/*/hostmatrix.org/*) doesn't.

[kendall]

lol, yea that was my first try. They hadn't archived it in a while before that.

[Mike]

They had it earlier so we revived some old tutorials

[Mike]

fastservers.co.uk

Remember when we spoke of the dedicated server? Heres another site to check out ST :)

Thanks to Heathman of course lol

[Arseniy]

Ouch, I was affected too :( Re-registered now, but lost my rep and my membership-since-2005 :(

[Eion]

One thing: why cant we edit our posts now?

ok, so apparently we can just edit /some/ posts? The underground forum wont let me...

[Nevalite]

Yeah I lost my rep and account since 2003 or 2004, I forget :'(

[daman371]

Ouch, I was affected too :( Re-registered now, but lost my rep and my membership-since-2005 :(

Same for me. I had 130+ rep.